(ABOVE) 3 pictures of what was left in the duct from the company that sent in the letter below. Obviously this was not inaccessible as the new cleaning company was able to get to it to get pictures and to clean it.
How much BS can one company give to a restauranteer? In my opinion, this letter is complete BS!! We received this letter from a company that has just been terminated from grease exhaust cleanings for this account. This is the letter that they sent. You have to read it to believe it!! This explains why many companies refuse to properly clean systems. Instead of simply doing their job, they give various excuses on why they cannot and did not do the job to NFPA96 standards(or any other standards I know of!!) FYI: The new company now cleaning these systems are doing them perfect and down to the metal with full verification pictures. They are able to access all areas. The pictures taken showed long term buildup and not the 2 weeks buildup he was claiming in the letter. Vast areas of the systems we inspected appear to have never been cleaned and what was done was only a few inches and not a few feet. - Don
XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX Inc
XXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX, XXXXXX XXXXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXXX XXXXXX
Response to Email dated 7/15/08.
XXXX, I can understand after seeing the photos that there would be concerns about the grease conditions that exist in the duct lines even after cleaning. Cleaning Duct lines that are longer than 10 feet or that have horizontal runs or other 90 degree bends are virtually impossible to clean to bare metal unless they have been cleaned effectively from the beginning of its operation. Since all of your locations are in malls, the ducts are all extremely long and or have 90 degree bends and horizontal runs thus creating a situation where the ducts are nearly impossible to clean entirely from top to bottom.
The company XXXXX was using prior to us was XXXXXXX Services. It was apparent that they seldom went onto the roof to clean the fans and never cleaned the ducts. There were several inches of grease on all of the ducts from top to bottom. I discussed this with XXX XXXXXX, the area supervisor, when we first took over the account I informed him of the following:
Once the grease becomes solid, chemicals and pressure washing alone will not remove the grease to bare metal. Only by first scraping the ductwork with assorted metal scrapers, can the grease be totally removed.
Because the ducts are relatively narrow, they can only be effectively be scraped for about 5 feet. After that distance, you can not get enough angle on the scraper to remove the grease. The scraper is almost parallel to the duct so the scraper slides on the hard grease instead of scraping it off. For areas from 5-9 feet, we use 5-8’ wands with bent tips. If we put the tip right against the duct, it rips most of the solid grease off.
For areas greater than 10 feet, we use a 12’ wand and or a spinner which is lowered down the shaft. This removes new soft grease, but is not effective at removing the hard grease adhered to the duct.
A similar problem is encountered in cleaning the duct from the hood. Because the ducts are narrow and the fusible links are directly in the way it is also impossible to remove the hard grease that is beyond reach. We carefully reach up the duct and scrape visible areas. We also extend the pressure wand up as far as possible, but we can not navigate turns. The fusible link can only be cleaned gently by hand and hot low pressure water. The Maryland Fire Code 11.4.7 states that cleaning chemicals shall not be applied to the fusible links or other detection devices of the automatic extinguisher system. If this system engages, it is up to $1,000.00 to recharge. There is also a possibility of lost sales waiting for and during repair.
On the roof, the fan is always cleaned top and bottom and then the ducts are cleaned as described above. We have had to reschedule jobs where roof access was not granted instead of merely cleaning the system from below.
Another issue that we have encountered at several of your locations is, the mall management will not allow the filters to be cleaned on the property. In these cases, we have to bring an extra truck to transport and clean the filters off the premises.
The problem of grease build up in parts of the ducts at restaurants located in malls is consistent in all types of restaurants in every mall that I have worked at. It seems that they are installed with no consideration of the maintenance of the ducts. Ducts should be built straight up for maximum air draw and for effective cleaning, but due to other stores, and other systems (electrical and plumbing, etc.) being in the way of the straight duct, they are installed with bends and horizontal runs just so they can make them fit. Then years later when these types of grease build up problems arise, they can’t understand why there is a problem. Even if access panels are installed, many times there is no way to physically get to them or the panels are tight up against electrical equipment where any deflected water could result in many hazards. In addition, even if the access panels are accessible, there is usually not enough of them to still prevent areas of grease accumulation because you can still only scrape what you can reach.
In summery, your ducts were not designed from the beginning to be cleaned effectively. Even if they had been cleaned diligently every 2-3 months, which is not the case, there would probably still be areas of build up due to poor design. We have been using all methods and equipment currently available to remove as much grease as possible each cleaning. We tried to create fire break zones at both the top and the bottom of the system so that in the event of a fire flare up, the fire would not spread up into the duct. But if it did there was another area below the fan that would help prevent the fire from spreading to the roof.
I am willing to meet with your maintenance staff, engineers, and supervisors to inspect these systems to try to come up with a solution.
Now, as a response to the photos sent: First, if that picture from XXXXXX XXXXX was in reality two weeks from our cleaning, it must be a result of one of the following because I inspected that system before I left and there was no grease left in that area. Either the staff was cooking without the filters in place, or there is such a great amount of grease going up the duct that at night when the grease cools and becomes thick and heavy, it drops back down the duct onto the fire suppression linkage.
Second, XXXXX at the XXXXXX Mall has a tremendous horizontal run that greatly reduces the draw of the fan and it traps and hold grease near the hoods. We had your maintenance staff install a drain in it from which we attach a shop vac hose to and drain each cleaning. The photo was probably taken using a snake type video cam of an area that is again, currently physically inaccessible.
Third, concerning the picture of the XXXXX or YYYYYY at XXXXXXX mall: If it is fact the YYYYYYY as indicated on the picture itself, the major issue here is that the fan on the roof can not be removed due to improper installation. Therefore the duct work can not be cleaned. This issue was also discussed with XXX, when we first took over the account.
In closing, I realize that no company provides perfect service every time, and we make mistakes on occasion, but we take pride in our work and work to provide a consistent superior level of service. I do not believe that you will find another company that can provide you with better service then we do.
Thank you for your prompt response and I look forward to assisting you any way I can.
XXX XXXXX
XXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXX Inc.
XXX-XXX-XXXX office
XXX-XXX-XXXX cell
XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX Inc
XXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX, XXXXXX XXXXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXXX XXXXXX
Response to Email dated 7/15/08.
XXXX, I can understand after seeing the photos that there would be concerns about the grease conditions that exist in the duct lines even after cleaning. Cleaning Duct lines that are longer than 10 feet or that have horizontal runs or other 90 degree bends are virtually impossible to clean to bare metal unless they have been cleaned effectively from the beginning of its operation. Since all of your locations are in malls, the ducts are all extremely long and or have 90 degree bends and horizontal runs thus creating a situation where the ducts are nearly impossible to clean entirely from top to bottom.
The company XXXXX was using prior to us was XXXXXXX Services. It was apparent that they seldom went onto the roof to clean the fans and never cleaned the ducts. There were several inches of grease on all of the ducts from top to bottom. I discussed this with XXX XXXXXX, the area supervisor, when we first took over the account I informed him of the following:
Once the grease becomes solid, chemicals and pressure washing alone will not remove the grease to bare metal. Only by first scraping the ductwork with assorted metal scrapers, can the grease be totally removed.
Because the ducts are relatively narrow, they can only be effectively be scraped for about 5 feet. After that distance, you can not get enough angle on the scraper to remove the grease. The scraper is almost parallel to the duct so the scraper slides on the hard grease instead of scraping it off. For areas from 5-9 feet, we use 5-8’ wands with bent tips. If we put the tip right against the duct, it rips most of the solid grease off.
For areas greater than 10 feet, we use a 12’ wand and or a spinner which is lowered down the shaft. This removes new soft grease, but is not effective at removing the hard grease adhered to the duct.
A similar problem is encountered in cleaning the duct from the hood. Because the ducts are narrow and the fusible links are directly in the way it is also impossible to remove the hard grease that is beyond reach. We carefully reach up the duct and scrape visible areas. We also extend the pressure wand up as far as possible, but we can not navigate turns. The fusible link can only be cleaned gently by hand and hot low pressure water. The Maryland Fire Code 11.4.7 states that cleaning chemicals shall not be applied to the fusible links or other detection devices of the automatic extinguisher system. If this system engages, it is up to $1,000.00 to recharge. There is also a possibility of lost sales waiting for and during repair.
On the roof, the fan is always cleaned top and bottom and then the ducts are cleaned as described above. We have had to reschedule jobs where roof access was not granted instead of merely cleaning the system from below.
Another issue that we have encountered at several of your locations is, the mall management will not allow the filters to be cleaned on the property. In these cases, we have to bring an extra truck to transport and clean the filters off the premises.
The problem of grease build up in parts of the ducts at restaurants located in malls is consistent in all types of restaurants in every mall that I have worked at. It seems that they are installed with no consideration of the maintenance of the ducts. Ducts should be built straight up for maximum air draw and for effective cleaning, but due to other stores, and other systems (electrical and plumbing, etc.) being in the way of the straight duct, they are installed with bends and horizontal runs just so they can make them fit. Then years later when these types of grease build up problems arise, they can’t understand why there is a problem. Even if access panels are installed, many times there is no way to physically get to them or the panels are tight up against electrical equipment where any deflected water could result in many hazards. In addition, even if the access panels are accessible, there is usually not enough of them to still prevent areas of grease accumulation because you can still only scrape what you can reach.
In summery, your ducts were not designed from the beginning to be cleaned effectively. Even if they had been cleaned diligently every 2-3 months, which is not the case, there would probably still be areas of build up due to poor design. We have been using all methods and equipment currently available to remove as much grease as possible each cleaning. We tried to create fire break zones at both the top and the bottom of the system so that in the event of a fire flare up, the fire would not spread up into the duct. But if it did there was another area below the fan that would help prevent the fire from spreading to the roof.
I am willing to meet with your maintenance staff, engineers, and supervisors to inspect these systems to try to come up with a solution.
Now, as a response to the photos sent: First, if that picture from XXXXXX XXXXX was in reality two weeks from our cleaning, it must be a result of one of the following because I inspected that system before I left and there was no grease left in that area. Either the staff was cooking without the filters in place, or there is such a great amount of grease going up the duct that at night when the grease cools and becomes thick and heavy, it drops back down the duct onto the fire suppression linkage.
Second, XXXXX at the XXXXXX Mall has a tremendous horizontal run that greatly reduces the draw of the fan and it traps and hold grease near the hoods. We had your maintenance staff install a drain in it from which we attach a shop vac hose to and drain each cleaning. The photo was probably taken using a snake type video cam of an area that is again, currently physically inaccessible.
Third, concerning the picture of the XXXXX or YYYYYY at XXXXXXX mall: If it is fact the YYYYYYY as indicated on the picture itself, the major issue here is that the fan on the roof can not be removed due to improper installation. Therefore the duct work can not be cleaned. This issue was also discussed with XXX, when we first took over the account.
In closing, I realize that no company provides perfect service every time, and we make mistakes on occasion, but we take pride in our work and work to provide a consistent superior level of service. I do not believe that you will find another company that can provide you with better service then we do.
Thank you for your prompt response and I look forward to assisting you any way I can.
XXX XXXXX
XXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXX Inc.
XXX-XXX-XXXX office
XXX-XXX-XXXX cell